The second part of each episode is usually the far deeper more fulfilling and revealing part. Do to our trust for one another growing as well as the amount of drinks we've ha!
Zeke empowers me to get very transparent about my forming of a "Christian" institution (Once called Love is not Lost now called life) after I left the machine and to talk about the pain that ensued...but also the hope, joy, and community that has come out of it. We talk about the Jesus we want to believe in, albeit not sure yet if that Jesus exists.
With suffering beginning our discussion in this episode we come to some therapeutic conclusions that the human experience doesn't need answers. That conclusions only lead us to definitive responses which build walls around us and shut us off from growth. There is great joy to found in pain.
"Suffering helps us realize our stupidity, pettiness, and fear. it serves us by revealing to us that we don't need to hold back. That we are free to be ourselves." - Zeke Rudick
Zeke speaks to us about the thing many religious folks have felt in the past, the pressure to pursue people to save them and convert them to our ways. Wow, how that never worked for us. We have a hearty laugh at the expense of Kirk Cameron, Ray Comfort, and the whole "Way of the Master" manipulation.
I think one of the things that Ezekiel helps me to process through the most are my intentions and hopes for the CounterCulture Society. We chat about art and humanities need for it. How it expresses our deepest feelings and experiences in therapeutic ways. We talk about the vision of CounterCulture Society, my hopes for it and fears of it.
What's cool is that my wife, Jen walks in on us recording, loosely joins the conversation and publicly calls me out on my shit. Her input is a strong reminder to us both that the struggle is real, but that the biggest part of the struggle is usually in our own heads, not outside of us.
Fear is often the very thing that keeps us from living our lives. The fear of being ourselves, the fear of speaking up and speaking out. The fear that someone is going to be upset with me, that someone might reject us when we speak up and speak out of where we are.
Zeke and I hope to live a world free of fear, free from being rejected by community, and free of caring what others think. We desire to grow to think differently and live in the freedom from conforming.
"What if I just allow myself space to figure it out, instead of trying to isolate it all into the dichotomy of good versus evil."
"Fear is the low, rumbling, hum of suffering." - Zeke Rudick
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Zeke is a fantastically beautiful musician. Hearing his songs gave me goosebumps as tears welled up in my eyes. He’s the first former Mormon to be on the podcast but is most recently from the Mars Hill, Acts 29, Imago Dei, Missional Community type of religious institution.
Zeke was drawn into the Mars Hill scene when many of his musical hero’s were heading into the culture there. Through his journey of losing religion, he has grown from a "strong" miscegenistic, “Christian” viewpoint and lifestyle. To finding humility, community and solidarity in places that religious folks would assume to be unlikely.
We engage in a fascinating conversation regarding faith, belief, and wonder along the lines of journeying through life in the godless world.
What if I don’t believe anymore? What happens now? What's next? What about the Bible? The book that kept trying to convince us to love someone that maybe we don’t love? So many make it a narrative about a god that is so insecure that if you call him another name he banishes you to hell. Is there a hell? Or have we just come up with it to fit our need for there to be a battle between good and evil? To create an American scenario of what a winner and a loser are?
I can relate to Zeke's story of going through hell, and the only people that will reach deeply to you are those that the church would say are going to hell…which creates a whole different view of community through who show themselves to be "your people", "your crew", "your squad".
Belonging is a big deal! Solidarity is a massive thing. Solidarity in joy, pain, suffering, and celebration.
The pain and beauty in art and it being the best and only medium to express our humanity in the most transparent and beautiful ways. This gives the suffering a voice. Suffering Deserves a Voice.
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/2016/3/15/episode-034-belonging-and-solidarity-through-joy-and-pain-ezekiel-rudick-ex-mormon
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A continuation of Rob and I's fun night of drinking together. We have a great time talking about the changes we are seeing in our neighborhood of Capitol Hill, what we feel Seattle is losing, and how we feel about it. You can tell how much we love our current hood and at the same time miss our old neighborhood.
This is a must listen to episode because of the beautiful spirituality expressed in our connection together. As well as Rob's ability to call me out on my own shit shut me up when I'm talking too much, and mutually honor each others art and lives together.
Rob asks me some very specific questions about my life, faith, church attendance, and what being a "believer" looks like post-institutional religion. If I'm not in church, what keeps me going?
It is so beautiful how we discuss our faiths and our idea of growth as human beings in such candid, honest, and messy ways while coming from two entirely different backgrounds and viewpoints. But the conversation doesn't stop there. Rob gives his two cents about the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), and it's comparison to late night infomercials.
But the ending! I love how this episode ends. I love Rob, and I'm grateful for him taking the time to be with us.
LA Live Podcast Comedy Show: http://www.losingourreligion.org/lashow
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/episode-033-growing-up-in-this-mess-together-rob-femur-jewish-friends
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[All Music on this Episode is The Femurs]
"We're Jews; we're God's chosen people. You Christian's are always concerned with what you do because you're afraid of hell. When you're God's people, you don't have to worry about a hell."
- Rob Femur
"The evangelical church likes Donald Trump because they've been programmed to respect authoritative leaders. Trump is not a politician or a leader. He's a CEO. He's a pastor. The American church pastor today is not a pastor, they're a CEO. They don't shepherd people; they give orders to minions."
- Zac Gandara
Rob and I were hanging out at a local bar having an amazing conversation and decided we wanted to share it with you. So we quickly tabbed out at Captian Blacks and hoofed it to the studio...apartment to record these episodes.
Rob, raised in New York City by a family of Holocaust survivors. But perhaps we could also say he was raised by the Ramones, Iggy Pop, and Lou Reed because his musical talent and knowledge is awesome.
He's a New York Jew. You can hear it in his voice. He's also an amazing storyteller, with a rich, detailed American Jewish history to draw from, and strong political views to boot.
We chat politics, religion, egalitarian versus totalitarian, the crazy American electoral race right now, and the characters that are running in that race. Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Health Insurance, Gun Control, Ronald Regan, and Mental Health Care. Rob transparently shares about his life, Jewish viewpoints, even person experiences with abortion.
I love these conversations with Rob so much. We get excited, heated, and have a great time.
THE MUSIC in this episodes is Rob's: The Femurs
The Femurs are a band from Seattle starring Mr. Rob Femur. The music is a mix of Ramones-style pop with the sweet homespun sounds of Jonathan Richman. Many of the songs are written and recorded in an apartment. While others in a studio. Think sweet pop songs to make your day a bit brighter.
LA Live Podcast Comedy Show: http://www.losingourreligion.org/lashow
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/2016/3/1/032-new-york-punk-rock-jew-rob-femur-politics-trump-bernie-sanders-clinton
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Seth and I were both pretty nervous to release this episode. Cause we get weird and share very personal things and mystical experiences we've both had in our lives. We're either drunk, sick, fucking nuts, or completely normal. My bet is on normal, but we were enjoying Crown Royal Rye and light beers.
We chat briefly about Joel Osteen’s brand of happiness, spirit animals, seeing angels and mystic beings. Seth has some fascinating ideas of how and why we created a leader like Mark Driscoll, and why many of us hunger for ideologies and religions.
There may be wounds we are medicating. I know I have many. It takes work to find the wound. But in finding the wound, we can find the healing so that we stop using alcohol, drugs, sex, porn, religion and other things to cover and medicate ourselves away from living lives of freedom.
This episode is deep and weird, but therapeutically amazing. Seth is such an encourager, wisdom dropper. While I seem to just ramble on and on he has a knack for making sense of it all and helping me process what I am going through.
"Barriers, religion, ideologies, and fear stop us from experiencing freedom, and if we can understand that the barriers, religion, and ideologies are a creation of the fear. We can then move more quickly away from the creations of the fear. We created these things (barriers, religion, ideologies) because we needed them. Some part of us needed it. All we need to do is come to the point that we don't need these things to medicate us anymore. Then all we need is the human experience, and we find that in human experience is God experience because he is in the middle of it."
- Seth Taylor and Zac Gandara, Episode 031
Tickets for LA Show March 10, 2016: http://www.losingourreligion.org/lashow
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/2016/2/23/031-lets-get-weird-mystical-experiences-and-confessions-seth-taylor-osteen-driscoll
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"All religion is born from anxiety." Seth Taylor
Seth is a crazy ass, mystic, shaman-like, wise, amazing guy. At least, he is to me. He was featured in EPISODE 014, one of your favorite episodes. He's also a husband, father, and author whom you can read on XXXChurch and his new book. Much of his story of healing has come through his struggle with pornography and his desire for freedom. In reading Seth's writings, you'll often hear him reminding us that porn, and other addictions are not the problem, they're the symptom.
Seth has become a friend through our experience with him through Losing Our Religion. It's something I've grown grateful for while still being highly skeptical of the mysticism he embraces. We both divulge some very vulnerable things we are going through right now, and he has a natural wisdom that flows out of him that is arguably the most helpful therapy I have had in a long time.
Midlife Crisis
When you're going through a midlife crisis, when your marriage is starting to break down, when you just want to start life over. Religion is what used to hold us together, but what it often does is tear us apart. It causes us to avoid the deep issues inside of us, it leads us to suppress, developing coping mechanisms, by wearing masks, and arrogantly pushing others down, rather than digging deep within ourselves to do the healing work we need.
Ego
When ego leads the way we have big dreams, want to be rich, have celebrity status, and rule the world. But it comes with a significant cost and doesn't lead to joy and peace. Sometimes religion is what used to promote that for some of us, and for many it's what tore us and our real dreams down. When desires are led by ego, it leads to unhappiness, forceful living, not peace.
Desire
When you don't need anything, you can want anything. It's a state of being that dreams can come from a creative place, free from ego, and selfish desire. A place where you can create without demonstrative driving forces running over others, and hurting people. You can, instead of forcing things into reality, begin to live in the now that doesn't need anything else. Where you get to work from rest instead of resting from work. In this peaceful place, real desires can really begin to manifest rather than be forcefully taken.
"And we cannot be honest unless we recognize that we have to live in the world etsi deus non daretur [as if God did not exist]."
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison, 360-361)
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Now that you're almost a month into the New Year and the resolution talk has faded. How are you doing?
This new Losing Our Religion format highlights losing New Years Resolutions and the religious imposition they enforce upon us. It's a discussion about setting our personal agendas without imposing it on others. It's a chat about my struggles with expectations and whether they are worth having.
If you're like a lot of Americans, you've already become disillusioned with your goals and resolutions. Upset at yourself and frustrated that the promises of the social media "life coaches" for New Year change have left you the same, or worse, just depressed that you can't be all they say you can be.
Some people have accused me of being cynical, and I don't in any way argue with their assessment. However, I consider myself a realist and consumeristic Americana just doesn’t work for me anymore. So what's the alternative? Maybe this show can spark our imaginations to find new ways.
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/2016/2/15/im-a-loser-losing-new-years-resolutions-marc-maron-wtf
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This is part two of a conversation with Christian Grindstaff. In our first conversation, we covered a lot of ground. We reminisced about our times together in the Christian institutional church, how I kicked Christian out of youth ministry, and where we're going now and how we're trying to do it together. He's known me longer than my wife, he's a great conversationist and a great drinking buddy.
Apparently Christian and I are reaching the bottom of the bottle of Rye at this point. I even end up spilling beer in the middle of our conversation cause I talk with my hands; of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that we've drunk almost a 5th of whiskey together. Right?
There's a strong "God believer" factor in this slightly drunken episode of questioning everything and offending almost anyone, including ourselves. We discuss a lot of topics, from how humanities access to information these days gives us the ability to grow and educate ourselves far beyond greater generations. How that fact creates an opportunity to question leaders and authority over us in a way our parents may not have been able to. We even get into a little laughing about Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders
Our view of White Privilege and the Black Lives Matter movement has changed much over the years, and Christian seems to have a fascination with Canada and the new Candian Prime Minister, who has chosen a truly diverse Cabinet.
This Episode ends much differently than any other on LOR so far. Christian explains the song he has recently written about his journey out of religion and he shares the hope he has. That if God does exist, that he is a lot different than Christian was ever shown through the church.
"If you're afraid to explore other ideas, other people, or other things then you are more than likely bound to what you believe and are in religion." - Christian Grindstaff
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/2016/2/8/episode-029-maybe-theres-something-more-part-2-christian-grindstaff
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Thanks to Danny E.B. Tracks for the Opener to this Episode:
"F*ck Haters" - Inspiring Rap Beat Hip Hop Instrumental
▶Business / Negocios : t_hedany2@hotmail.com
Christian is a talented songwriter and music producer. In fact, almost all of the music in the episode is Christian's work. He is a salesman by trade, extremely articulate with his words and a great drinking buddy.
Christian has known me longer than my wife has. We have a lot of history together. We've been through the institutional church fire together and come out the other side enlightened, sometimes confused, full of questions, but happier than ever.
There have been few people in either of our lives that have caused us more frustration and anger, but continual support and love for one another. We're always honest with each other. We fight it out and find a way to respect, love, and hug each other in the end. We rarely agree with each other - which is great.
In these episodes with Christian, we reminisce about our times together in the Christian institutional church, how I kicked Christian out of youth ministry, and where we're going now and how we're trying to do it together.
We talk about everything from our past lives in the institution to our slow transition from once being Evangelical Conservative Republicans to now Liberal Democrat Socialists and how it happened. As well as our personal convictions, how we saw and I used my past "Christian" leadership to impose personal dogmas onto congregations and people.
We even get into the lie that our old church Christian Faith Center in Washington consistently preaches of happiness, prosperity, and the good life being what Jesus gives you. Hmmmm? Sounds a lot like Christian's sales pitch for a timeshare presentation.
(All of Christian's music can be found on this episodes landing page below.)
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/2016/2/2/028-religious-sales-pitch-christian-grindstaff-conservative-liberal-socialist
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Thanks to Danny E.B. Tracks for the Opener to this Episode:
Hard Trap ✘ Hip Hop Instrumental Free 2015
▶Business / Negocios : t_hedany2@hotmail.com
▶Facebook: https://goo.gl/M3bf2c
▶Followme for more beats: https://goo.gl/WEuTtp
▶Beats Download: https://goo.gl/O6ZYvf
This is a very "Christiany" episode. If you're adverse to that, then you may want to skip this one. But it is a valuable conversation for those "of the faith". Mat (Raised Baptist former Non-Denominational Youth Pastor) and I even get into theology and biblical hermeneutics a bit while thankfully, Liz (Raised United Pentecostal Church International) brings us back down to earth.
The process of losing your religion isn't easy for a "Christian". As Lyn Morrow said, "It's like wiping the wipe board clean" of everything you ever believed and starting over. That creates so many PTSD triggers for so many of us because these are things that people we respected taught us, our parents may have given us, church leaders we trusted, all shared their concrete personal truths to us, full of certainty. Then finding out their certainty, isn't yours. What do I do now?
How do you own your faith?
Is the "church" just a business?
Should I proselytize?
Can I still believe and not go to "church"?
Do I need a pastor? Does God care?
When do I listen to other people's opinion?
Am I still "saved"?
Is it scary to lose your religion? Can I do it?
What's next after religion?
Join the CounterCulture Society: http://eepurl.com/bwqMWT
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This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/losing-aint-easy-part-2-liz-mat-von-ehrenkrook-upc-baptist-pentecostal
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